Episode One: Creating Change: Diversity in Advertising in Conversation with Sarah Jenkins
Shownotes
In our inaugural episode, 'Creating Change: Diversity in Advertising', we're joined by Sarah Jenkins, the trailblazing Managing Director of Saatchi & Saatchi.
Sarah's journey is both inspiring and enlightening, as she shares her experiences as a Black woman carving out a space in the predominantly white world of advertising. Her story is a powerful testament to resilience and determination.
Listen as Sarah reveals the challenges and triumphs of her path, the critical role she plays in spearheading the advertising diversity task force, and her ongoing mission to revolutionise inclusivity in the industry.
This episode isn't just about stories; it's about action. Sarah offers practical advice for leaders and change-makers looking to foster a culture of inclusivity and diversity. Whether you're in advertising, leadership, or simply passionate about change, this conversation is an unmissable insight into making a tangible difference.
You can find Sarah Jenkins here.
You can find Barbara Banda here.
The Model Black by Barbara Banda
Music by Maiwa Banda.
Transcription
[00:00:00] Barbara Banda: Hello, I'm Barbara Bander, and this is The Model Black, a podcast about equity at work. This podcast series aims to create a space where we can have open and positive conversations [00:00:20] around race and difference in the world of work. My ultimate goal is to create more inclusive and equitable workplaces. As we do, that achieving equity at work is very much a journey and not a destination.
During this podcast series, we're going to have conversations with experts from [00:00:40] across the globe exploring what we can all do to make our workplaces more equitable. Today, I'm really excited to be speaking with Sarah Jenkins, who is Managing Director at one of the world's most famous advertising agencies, Saatchi Saatchi.
Alongside her work in advertising, Sarah [00:01:00] is a board trustee at the Historic Royal Palaces. So Sarah has been a driving force behind the industry wide Advertising Diversity Task Force and this task force brings together the most progressive agencies across the communications industry to use their combined energy expertise [00:01:20] and skills to shift the diversity dial.
Welcome Sarah, really good to be talking to you today.
[00:01:27] Sarah Jenkins: Oh, gosh, thank you so much for having me. It's an absolute honor.
[00:01:30] Barbara Banda: We chatted before, and I know from our chats earlier that you're involved in some really exciting, dare I say it, even groundbreaking initiatives in the DEI space at Saatchi and [00:01:40] Saatchi.
But before we get into that, it would be great to hear something about your journey as a Black woman in the advertising industry. So, Sarah, how did you end up in advertising?
[00:01:54] Sarah Jenkins: I'm going to show my age straight away. I grew up in the 80s, so it was a golden age of advertising. [00:02:00] It was the Levi ads. It was the Goldblend couple.
It was a time when the ads genuinely were as good as anything that you saw in the program. So advertising was an incredibly cool, desirable, creative destination. And growing up in Dorset, it was probably one of the areas of creativity I had most access to. Our local cinema wasn't so great, and there [00:02:20] was no theater to speak of.
So I guess I was quite a creative person, so advertising was very much front and foremost. So advertising was definitely where I wanted to be. When I went to university, it was definitely going to be the end game. And I did what everyone does, which was applied by the milk round at the time ad agencies would have 3000 plus [00:02:40] applications.
So it was going to be tough. Tough to get through. But I was determined and I'd always wanted to do advertising. So I was an advertising scholar. I devoured ads and I filled out my forms and all my friends filled out their forms. And one by one, my friends started to get interviews and I never did.
So I was [00:03:00] super despondent, but also just concentrating on my final year of university. And I just had a brilliant, naive, Enthusiasm, passion, regardless I was just moved to London, I would find a way to get my dream job, so. Moved to London without a job, and I worked two sort of part time [00:03:20] jobs to pay the rent.
And after about a month of being settled in my house, I wrote 100 letters, because again I'm quite old, no email, 100 letters to 100 sort of small, medium sized ad agencies saying I was a recent graduate with loads of talent and loads of passion for advertising [00:03:40] and any chance there might be an entry level job.
Because I knew all the big guns would be milked round, I'd already failed, I didn't want to wait a year. So yeah, I wrote 100 letters and then within, I think like outrageously two days, there was a message left on the answer phone. So again, no mobile phones at my shared house saying, do you want to pop in for a [00:04:00] chat and a cup of tea?
[00:04:00] Barbara Banda: So your naïve enthusiasm got you quite a long way then. It got me so far,
[00:04:05] Sarah Jenkins: Yeah, well done, 22 year old me, yeah. And
[00:04:08] Barbara Banda: I'm really interested because I'm guessing you wouldn't have seen a lot of Black people in advertising at that time, and there probably weren't even that many Black people in adverts on the telly, so did that put [00:04:20] you off, did that encourage you, or was that something you just really weren't aware of?
[00:04:23] Sarah Jenkins: Yeah, well I guess, super important context, I grew up in Dorset, and I'm adopted, so, white family, white school, white county, and when I say white, I could count on one hand the number of people I was ever at school with who was a person of [00:04:40] color. And then I went to Nottingham University, which is a great university, but horribly middle class, disproportionately white relative to the representation of the nation.
So yeah, I'd always, the only black girl in school, only black girl in my sports club, only black girl. at university. To be honest, I wasn't turned off by the fact I was going to go into an industry that was all white people [00:05:00] because that was all I really knew.
[00:05:01] Barbara Banda: Yeah, now that's interesting to hear and I can understand what that's like because in a way I've got a similar experience.
Everyone around you is white and that's the world you live in. Yeah. And sometimes there is a kind of moment where you realize that you are different, whether it's at school, university, or at work. Have you had any kind of [00:05:20] such moment?
[00:05:21] Sarah Jenkins: Gosh, I mean, there are being bad moments and good moments. One of my earliest memories when I was four, I was cast as Mary in the nativity play.
It was this proper really basic nursery as well. It wasn't like the first year of school. It was like a little local community [00:05:40] nursery and I was cast as Mary in the nativity. So big gun, like this is an amazing this is Oscar winning opportunity, isn't it? Lead role. And I remember age four saying to my mum and then the nursery teacher that I didn't want to be Mary.
I wanted to be one of the kings because on all the nativity cards, the Christmas cards, there was always the three kings [00:06:00] and one of them was always black. So I had such a limited access to people that looked like me. I remember that even though it's like a million years ago now, I do remember that moment where I know I needed to look like the person that I'd seen on the Christmas card.
That was a very defining moment. There were definitely moments at school when we would talk about racism and [00:06:20] prejudice. You are the one that everyone is looking at because You are the reference. So there were definitely some really bad assemblies. A terrible headmaster. One of the most racist things I ever heard was in an assembly with a headmaster leading on it.
So there are definitely moments of bad and moments when I felt unbelievably uniquely, not [00:06:40] lonely, but isolated in the moment. And even like we've, we've already talked about my process looking for a graduate job. I just didn't. recognize the fact that as I stapled my passport photo to these application forms of the thousands of entries, I would have been a tiny, tiny minority that was [00:07:00] someone of color with their passport photo attached to their application forms.
Unfortunately, those days are over. No longer have to show what you look like when you apply, but I guess there were, looking back, outside of the moment, there would have been definite moments where I was so uniquely the only person of color in a process or in the [00:07:20] room. I still am. I still am. Very rarely am I in a room with someone who's, who is of color.
[00:07:25] Barbara Banda: You had those experiences, you've got your head down, you've got on with it, you've applied, you've got in, you're working in the advertising industry. I'm interested to know, some of the research I did for my book suggested that black women have to work harder, you have to be twice [00:07:40] as good. Has any of that played out for you in your time in the industry?
[00:07:43] Sarah Jenkins: Yes, twice as good, three times as good. You have to work harder because there is prejudice. If I'm honest, assumption that I wasn't as bright and who's the black girl and who doesn't speak as posh as the other people in the room there would have been assumptions made, I suspect, because there would have been more sort of [00:08:00] racist stereotypes.
Now, as I'm more senior, perhaps I feel like I have to prove myself. In fact, I've got my job because I'm good and on merit, not because someone was ticking a box. And then there's just the continuous macro, I'm representing every day. I represent black women and therefore I have to deliver and I can't afford to fail.
So [00:08:20] yeah, a hundred percent, it is a constant.
[00:08:23] Barbara Banda: And what does it look like? So try being better, working harder. Is that more hours?
[00:08:28] Sarah Jenkins: To be clear, people work hard. This is a high effort high energy industry. People work really hard, but yeah, I, everything has to be 100%. Everything has to be done as [00:08:40] brilliantly and as impactfully as possible.
And one of my colleagues, one of my leadership peers, the other day she went, 80 percent is fine. And it was like, really? She was like, yeah, you've got to chill more. It's okay, 80 percent is good and then you can move on and do something else at 80%. I've been doing this for 25 years and It was super refreshing and genuinely helpful to hear [00:09:00] someone say 80 percent is okay.
[00:09:01] Barbara Banda: Again, that's so interesting because someone said that to me once many years ago. No way! What is this about? Why do you feel you have to over excel? And there's almost there's something inside you as a Black woman that says that if you're not, so if, if you're not over excelling, you're not doing more, it's just not good enough.
And I'm also interested in your response to [00:09:20] the 80%. What are you going to do?
[00:09:22] Sarah Jenkins: It's helped me, since that was probably 10 days ago and it has. I've checked myself and I'm really good. I'm like, it's fine. Send it. It's fine. The email's good enough. Just send it. Definitely time back. Yeah. It's delightful.
[00:09:35] Barbara Banda: I'm going to stay on this topic of black woman in your industry. And I'm thinking, we're talking, we're [00:09:40] sitting here, two black women talking about what it's like to be black. And I know that when I was at work, I was concerned to talk about being black, talk about my color, because I was concerned that people would think that.
I'm one of those black people that you have to watch what you say around. So I'm curious about how you found talking about your color.
[00:09:59] Sarah Jenkins: Thank you for [00:10:00] sharing your book, which I've had the chance to dip into and spend time with. And I was like, I feel so seen like it's true. You are aware that you don't want to be the chippy one or the one that use it, uses it as a reference.
You don't want to be black first. You want to be talented first. So it's definitely navigating it. And there have been countless [00:10:20] occasions with nefarious, I've been so lucky for so many good bosses, but nefarious bosses and insidious peers where my energy and conviction has just so quickly been translated into aggression and assertiveness and loudness.
No, this is good [00:10:40] energy and good conviction. And you wouldn't be saying that to a white man or a posh girl. There's definitely labels attributed. by bad people. Very rare have I ever worked with anyone that I respect, whether it's been bad behavior or misfiring. It's been the insidious characters.
[00:10:58] Barbara Banda: And there is sometimes a [00:11:00] sense that even those occasional incidents affect you.
So there is something, I don't know whether you feel like you, you've still got to pick yourself up and get on with it when those incidents happen.
[00:11:10] Sarah Jenkins: Yeah, definitely. Definitely not. Confidence is a superpower in this industry and anything that knocks you even back 5 percent or. makes [00:11:20] you question or reduces your energy or yes, it's corrosive and we can't afford corrosive energy.
It's contrary to creativity.
[00:11:30] Barbara Banda: And in your position as well, you're you're very visible, you're a very senior black woman, possibly the most senior black woman in the advertising industry in the UK. And again, [00:11:40] I'm also curious because again, when I wrote the book, I was thinking about, Oh my goodness, I put myself out there.
I'm visible. What are people going to say? How do you deal with that visibility?
[00:11:50] Sarah Jenkins: I guess because it is visible. It's almost, it's, I think the you can't hide from it. You do lean into it. It's almost like the decision's been made for you. [00:12:00] So certainly being, yeah, I am visibly black. There's no hiding from it.
So it's not as if I'm having to actively choose to represent. I think I saw my job as just doing the best I could do. I got promoted to leadership position as a chief marketing officer, so headed up new business about five or six [00:12:20] years ago. And I think at that point I realized my job wasn't simply to represent, it was to create change and create conversations and start the dialogue and yeah, does that answer your question?
[00:12:32] Barbara Banda: Yeah, I think it does and I love the way that you've talked about using your job now as being to create change because that's where I'd like to move [00:12:40] to really, to get a sense of the kinds of changes that you're creating in the industry and ahead of. Thinking about where we are now, I'm curious about the changes that you've seen in the time that you've been in the advertising industry.
And I'm talking here now about the, the DEI space. What was it like when you arrived there [00:13:00] and how does that compare to the way things are now?
[00:13:03] Sarah Jenkins: Oh yeah, the industry's hugely grown up when we're talking about. There's being black in our industry, there's being a woman in this industry, like there are in terms of intersectionality and just a genuine understanding that diversity doesn't mean compromising on talent and that [00:13:20] diversity is a good thing and that diversity actually brings good energy and culture shifts in a brilliant way, not just by having more diverse people in your building, but just having more empathy and humanity and how you think as a leader, they all make.
your business better. So the shift is, the agency's pretty much [00:13:40] unrecognizable in terms of its ability to talk about the importance of diversity and the importance of difference. It's probably way more comfortable with gender progress. And the top trumps of discrimination or prejudice or positively, positive change, the top trumps of positive [00:14:00] change, gender, we're an industry that's really got its act together.
You've seen some really impressive figures now in terms of the number of women in leadership roles. And that's been a long time. That's, the last 20 years in particular, it's really accelerated, particularly in the media. In part of our industry, it's still got a long way to go when it comes to [00:14:20] really understanding the experience of people of color and really accelerating people of color through the industry.
Because previously we had a challenge of women becoming leaders and being respected, but we didn't have a problem with the pipelines. You'd have a junior level in an advertising industry, even 20 years ago, 50 percent women [00:14:40] in a lot of the key departments, there was just a glass ceiling that was stopping women progressing, but we are.
still at the start of the pipeline. We're only just getting our act together in the last five years. Have we really been able to accelerate the number of people of color on our industry? So then you've just got naturally got fewer and fewer people of color to choose from in order to elevate their roles.[00:15:00]
There's an article today, actually campaign, which is our big trade journal, and it's still very much a trade Bible. So everyone would have read campaign today because it's school reports once a year, every agency gets a grade or a mark out of nine from the editors of campaign. And it's interesting how many agencies are being called out for the [00:15:20] lack of diversity in their leadership teams, specifically the lack of people of color.
And part of me is it's really hard because there aren't that many people of color. that you can hire to fill those roles. It's an artificially high bar at the moment, I think. Truly diverse leadership. We're still five, ten years of a pipeline away to really have a [00:15:40] embarrassment of awesome riches when it comes to diverse leadership talent, because we've taken so long to start pairing.
[00:15:48] Barbara Banda: It's interesting what you're saying about, women in the first instance. Yeah, when we talk about diversity and women, that's easy for people to connect with, for people to lean into. But you're quite right, when it starts to become about race, that [00:16:00] becomes a little bit more, a little bit more prickly.
And I'm also intrigued in what you're saying about this pipeline, because somehow we managed to get a female pipeline, didn't we? So what is it that we might need to do to bring about that, the kind of pipeline that you need in your business?
[00:16:16] Sarah Jenkins: The greatest gift was the fact that more women were [00:16:20] going to university.
So there were more graduates and then there were more people knocking on the door and impressing at milk rounds. So as an industry, we've not had a challenge with women being attracted to this amazing creative industry is the challenge has been the glass ceiling at mid management level. It's a different challenge altogether.
It's not so much that we're racing to [00:16:40] just higher grads. I think as an industry, we woke up to the fact you can get brilliant people that haven't been to university and brilliant people that can't afford to go to university. So we've got to find different ways in, but in terms of the complexity and the barriers to entry, they are deep, man.
They are deep and they are complicated and the intersectionality of [00:17:00] being working class and someone of color. all these things compounding where you live, how much money you've got, how much you can lean on bank of mum and dad. Yeah, there are probably 10 fundamental barriers that stop brilliant young black working class people from entering our amazing industry and I [00:17:20] cannot stress glorious and beautiful our industry is.
This extraordinary alchemy of creativity and commerce, this extraordinary ability to make unbelievable leaps that can transform a business and bring in millions overnight or transform share price overnight. So it's amazing. It should [00:17:40] be a destination for so many talented people and there are so many barriers in the way.
[00:17:43] Barbara Banda: You've got challenges with the pipeline and then they arrive. How are they made to feel? So imagine I am a working class
black boy.
How would I feel coming to your business or,
[00:17:57] Sarah Jenkins: without sounding cheesy, I hope you'd feel really [00:18:00] welcomed and appreciated because we have been on a journey in the last few years we recognize that our desire to have more underrepresented brilliant talent in the building was there, but the conditions definitely weren't there.
And there's an incredible company called Commercial Break who specialize in getting businesses ready. [00:18:20] To give breaks for people from working class backgrounds and you speak to them and they're amazing and they're really impressive and they go we should do an audit of your business and make sure there's no like dark patches or shadows or corners that aren't gonna be helpful and you go wow I'm sure we're not perfect but I'm sure.
I'm sure we'll be a pretty solid seven out of ten and they come in and they rinse you [00:18:40] because all these things that we do that are so contrary to allowing young people, particularly those who may be lacking confidence or lacking in the shortcuts to work in an environment like ours, which is still very middle class, still very white.
There are just so many sort of trip hazards. So commercial break a great because they come in and go, [00:19:00] you guys speak so quickly on all your MS teams. There is no hope. of anyone keeping up. So all you're doing is making it really hard for someone who's lacking confidence to be even more lacking in confidence and have it.
So that's one example of the speed in which we used to operate on teams. Just really good practical watch outs for us as an [00:19:20] agency. for how you should or shouldn't welcome young talent that haven't had the opportunities to work in an office, a big glass box office with lots of loud, noisy, talented people, and how you ensure people come in soft, with that soft entry, lots of phasing, lots of chance to try different things, [00:19:40] different sets of expectations.
I think a lot of humility, a lot of curiosity, a lot of transparency, they're all things that have helped us do a better job, not a perfect job, but done a better job on entry level talent from less middle class white backgrounds. So that's one thing we've done in particular. [00:20:00] And then on a practical level, we pay very well at mid and senior levels within our industry, but it's pretty much London living wage when you first start, you work your way up.
So we had to find a different way for people to be able to move to London without, particularly for those who weren't able to rely on bank with mom and dad. We take real pride at [00:20:20] running at big, gnarly, complex problems for our clients. Like we do it all the time. Oh, that's a massive problem. How are we going to find big creative brains?
We're going to run at it and find a solution. So we just applied our, we applied our brilliant brains to this problem, which was affordable accommodation in London. And we can't afford to buy loads of houses and rent them out, but we were able to [00:20:40] identify an amazing charity called the London Hostel Association.
They have these brilliant big buildings, student style accommodations. You've got your own room and an en suite bathroom and you've got that privacy, but then you've got shared kitchens and shared living space. So we partner with them. Their model already subsidizes relative to London, London [00:21:00] rent. And then we further subsidize.
and that allows anyone at entry level or below a certain salary threshold to have much more affordable accommodation in London in a very safe space without the complex or that the awfulness of having a shared house with people you don't know and [00:21:20] shared bathrooms which must be a horrible violation.
without the heavy duty sort of deposits needed to be put down without having to commit to a 12 month or 24 month lease. So it's just all the things you need in order to have a soft landing in London. And then you've got a mini community as well. So we have four or five residents at any one time staying at the space down in Bermondsey [00:21:40] and they look after each other and they look out for each other.
And it's, is survive. So Saatchi Home, we're really proud of. That's been a really big unlock for affordable accommodation. Anyone can do that. Anyone can reach out to London Hostels Association and find a way of making it work for your business. You can package it up and label it and be a superhero within your organization.
[00:21:58] Barbara Banda: Sarah, [00:22:00] just hearing about that accommodation alone would make me want to work for Saatchi and Saatchi, forget anything else. The idea that you're getting such a great start really in your career and somebody is sorting out some of the, as you say, some of the more complex expensive things that can be difficult for people from, particularly from working class homes.
So I'm interested to know whether you've [00:22:20] already started to see the impacts of that in your business. Are you getting more people from working class backgrounds, from black people? backgrounds applying as a consequence of that. Give us a sense of how that's worth.
[00:22:31] Sarah Jenkins: They're directly because we have built an entry level program that is genuine, authentic, engineered.[00:22:40]
based on the genuine barriers that people have. So we had started to open as our entry level course. We re engineered it. It's not about having a degree. It's about being brilliant and creative and curious and bringing in like an inquisitive energy to what you're doing. And we partner with an amazing organization called Brixton Finishing [00:23:00] School that has.
Some great reach out and the three people we hired, our first cohort of start sheet openers were all from working class backgrounds, all women, and it was all just all on merit. Two people of color, one who lived in Grimsby, so no, there was practically no [00:23:20] way they were ever going to be moving to London without support.
But what was interesting, they'd all had design backgrounds. That's what introduced them to the 141 advertising. One of them is now a strategist. One's become a creative, so not just a pure designer. They've made a jump into a very hard to break into department. And another is a data artist, so working with hardcore data [00:23:40] to help us write our briefs.
I think it's proof not only do we make it accessible and affordable. We didn't pigeonhole anyone, expect them to be perfectly ready to work out what they want to do next. We built something that's allowed talented people to come and then we work out where they're going to be most extraordinary. So yeah, we mean massive tick Saatchi Home and [00:24:00] good begets good.
If you're doing something that is that smart and committed, all talent look at it and go, that's the sort of agency I want to work at. There's an authenticity to it. So it doesn't just attract that hardcore junior underrepresented talent. It's a pull for [00:24:20] all. But I think, gosh, I could talk about this all day.
The thing I'm probably most proud of the agency is how it's Saatchi Home is great because it's scalable, so super proud of it. Really proud of Saatchi Open, our entry level, because every six months another three amazing talented juniors arrive, but they all [00:24:40] feel in themselves quite small. But what I'm so proud of is What started as Office Saatchi Ignite, which is our schools program.
So that started off three years ago. We were like, look, the pipeline is literally bust. Got creativity being stripped out of the curriculum. We've got [00:25:00] teachers exhausted, tired, burnt out, kids who've been locked in lockdown for almost two years. This is not a world equipping the next generation of makers and creators and thinkers.
And we decided that if we were going to really run at this big gnarly problem. We were going to do it properly and do it with some swagger. We talked about chutzpah [00:25:20] and with some chutzpah. So we said, look, any school we spend time with, we are in as proper partners. So none of this speakers for schools.
I'm going to go do an assembly. I feel good. The kids will feel good for 20 minutes. You never see me again. So no, it's full commitment. So seven year commitment with any school that we partner. So it's an immediate release for teachers. They're like. They care and they're in [00:25:40] it. They're not going to just helicopter in and out.
So it's a seven year commitment. We think we're busy. We're not busy compared to teachers and students. Like the timetable is preeking. There's so many forced processes and systems. So we said we will work to the rhythm of the school. You tell us, give us the curriculum, give us the pockets where you're most[00:26:00] challenged, and we will work with you in those spaces.
So we work directly with the teachers on curriculum learning. So we bring in creativity and we inspire creativity. There's a second pillar, which is around careers, which is a more obvious one. So we're spending a lot of time. just explain to the students what we do as a job, we bring them into the agency, show them they are [00:26:20] creative people, we set them briefs and they're awesome.
And then the third pillar is around character and that is just making sure we are doing everything we can to boost confidence because we know it's one of the greatest, one of the saddest, one of the saddest realities is just how little Time is spent boosting and shaping [00:26:40] and injecting confidence into young people in the state school system.
Whereas within the private school system, it's a constant round of being boosted. So even if you're brilliant, you go and get your degree from the same university, we know working class students will lack the confidence and confidence is a game changer in all professions, not just advertising.[00:27:00]
Saatchi Ignite is incredible because of the three C's. Everything we're doing, everything is engineered to inspire kids that they are creative people, that they too can work in the creative industry, earning loads of money. It's a very well paid profession once you're a few years in, and we hardwire ourselves into curriculum.
We spend a huge amount of time making sure they've [00:27:20] got access to us and understanding the jobs. And then we spend a lot of time as well just mentoring and boosting confidence. And we're so excited by it. If anyone is listening, we have built a digital product called Upriser, which means that anyone can access the playbook.
So a lot of the heavy lifting has been done. And then we'll also work with any [00:27:40] interested creative companies and creative at the broadest, creativity at its broadest sense. We will then also partner a company with a school. So they get this beautiful genuine marriage of ambition between a creative company who wants to do the right thing and a school that is crying out for support but has a really strong [00:28:00] assistant principal to marshal it all.
[00:28:02] Barbara Banda: You've sold it, you've sold it, you've sold it, you've sold this idea and you know I can hear the passion in your voice and again you know I'm loving so much of what you said you know first of all it seems as if you've got the whole pipeline covered so you've got them in school with Ignite. Yes.
You've sought them out when they come in as graduate trainees [00:28:20] by helping them out whatever they need. and then you're having an audit done within the organization. Satya involved in the whole pipeline, which is phenomenal, and the idea that you're sharing those, your developments with other people as well.
So you're not keeping it to yourself, which is fantastic stuff. And one of the things that you said there that really landed with me as it happened [00:28:40] was that confidence piece, again, I'm reflecting back to, yeah, I got a good degree from a good university, but you walk in. And there is a class issue.
So it's how I love the idea that you're giving those young people the confidence that they need. When they do walk into what may feel like a broadly middle class environment, they [00:29:00] feel they can speak up and. be as successful as other people around them. So you're covering the whole pipeline there.
So wonderful things that you're doing. Is there anything else you're doing that's wonderful? I want to give you a chance to talk about that as well or to share if there's anything else that such and such you're doing in this space.
[00:29:18] Sarah Jenkins: I think that's what [00:29:20] we are most proud of, recognizing like the existential crisis, and it is an existential crisis, the lack of creativity in our schools and the lack of opportunity for people from working class backgrounds, and just the fact we have, end to end.
Found a way to engineer it. And I think it's got to [00:29:40] be said it's born from the fact that there is no lack of energy and enthusiasm in order to help find the fix. Like businesses want to help businesses really want to help. It's just sometimes it's the bandwidth and the heavy lifting to work out how you can do a salute, how you can solve.
So I think I'm excited that so much of what we've [00:30:00] produced and built is stealable. Because we're one company and that's one school. Perhaps we could do another school or three schools. That's only 3, 000 kids a year. If we get this right, it's 10, 000, 20, 000. And I think there's two things that have driven what I think is Good.
Hopefully we've set the, we've set the bar. I [00:30:20] think we've set the bar with our approach to pipeline and I think there's a couple of drivers for it. One of them is we have a framework. That we work to is a five. What do you mean by a framework? You mean, it's super easy for everyone to go, dNI it's really important this year and then it just slips away. So we've applied a real structure and a strategic [00:30:40] framework to our approach to DNI, as we would a client's prop business imperative or one of our own. There's five sort of success metrics, which have driven the output. One is DNI has to be leadership led.
It has to. We set the agenda, we set budgets, we find budgets, we can keep things as a priority. So [00:31:00] leadership led, number one job. Number two job, it has to be, we believe, agency built, has to be the collective wisdom and energy and experiences of our people. They are super creative and also way better at coming up.
with answers, particularly if they've had a lived experience, so agency built, and that's why the ideas are so good. Has to be measurable, [00:31:20] have to have the data, absolutely imperative. You've got to have the data, you've got to have a reference, and to understand where you're starting and where you're improving or going backwards.
Should be sustainable, should get better year on year. And then our fifth principle is whatever we do, we'll always be open and we'll share good stuff and we'll [00:31:40] say when we're failing and we'll just always, and we'll always be public. We'll always say out loud what we're going to do because then we have to stick to it.
So I think when you've got those five metrics or those five principles, it's hard not to keep moving forward.
[00:31:51] Barbara Banda: Now that sounds brilliant, and the idea that it's leadership led, so someone's got to be at the forefront of it, that speaks, I think, a lot. I've met many organisations who are doing [00:32:00] stuff, but you go to the top, people at the top, and they don't know what they're doing, what's happening, or why it's happening.
So I think this leadership led piece is, it's very powerful. So we're getting towards the end now about this wonderful conversation, but there is something a little bit personal that I want to ask you before the final questions, because again, I'm looking at you here, [00:32:20] looking at you across the screen as a black woman.
And I'm also curious about how you found aesthetics, your hair, the way you dress. How has that been as a black woman? Have you felt any pressure in any of those areas? Yeah, so
[00:32:33] Sarah Jenkins: I've got really short hair, cropped very short. First of all, I have very short hair because I used to have very long [00:32:40] extensions and, very long story, but basically I agreed to shave my hair for charity about 25 years ago.
And I was like, it's fine. I'll wear a scarf and my hair will grow back quickly and I can have extensions again within a month. I can do this. So it was a super contrived reason that I shaved my hair. And then it felt so [00:33:00] liberating and so easy. And I was like, I am not going back. I am not going back. It's too easy.
And it's, it is there and it's done. And don't forget, I was a black girl growing up in Dorset. I had struggles with my hair and my poor white mum had struggles with my hair. [00:33:20] So yeah, although I had the deliciousness of London and these amazing Afro hairdressers I used to go up and see in Tottenham, it was a moment, it was a definite moment when I shaved my hair off and kept it short.
I feel very lucky.
[00:33:34] Barbara Banda: I have very short hair as well and I have to agree with that liberating fact of it. And [00:33:40] Black women will wear their hair in all kinds of ways, so I guess that, the important thing is we embrace all kinds of ways and that what I was trying to get a sense of is whether we feel pressure because I have spoken to women in the past who said they feel pressure to have their hair straight, to have long straight extensions, so some of that I was just trying to get a sense.
[00:33:56] Sarah Jenkins: Yeah, the aesthetic of Black beauty is that, working in [00:34:00] advertising you're very aware of it because you're representing, there is this incredibly easily digestible version of black beauty that is like that's great, that ticks a box in it. And we have to make sure that we're working really hard to represent black beauty in all its forms.
And it comes down to, [00:34:20] again, this is an industry on a journey. It still doesn't understand the importance of having a hairdresser on set that knows black hair if you have a black actor on set. or nose, black makeup, if you have a black actor on set. So I can talk a long time about how amazing our industry is, but it's definitely [00:34:40] still got some areas where it can be even more fabulous.
[00:34:44] Barbara Banda: That's so interesting because, I was talking to my brother before I came on here. I said, I'm talking to you, this great black woman in advertising, and he said, you need to ask her one question. You need to ask her, why is it always mixed race couples in the adverts. Why don't we see black dad, black mom, and [00:35:00] black kids?
So maybe he's watching the wrong adverts, but I'm curious as to whether that resonates with you, speaks to you, or whether that sits anywhere in your
[00:35:09] Sarah Jenkins: I think we're getting better and better at casting. I think we're about shortcuts. We often are telling stories in 30 seconds and we'll make [00:35:20] one ad so you can feel agencies and clients are trying to represent.
So the mixed race family is great because you get, oh great we're representing, oh that's not ticking boxes that's great we've got a less homogenous representation. And you do, you actually do see a lot of a lot more [00:35:40] casting of people of, certainly people of Caribbean and African origin.
And again, I think how you explain brilliantly with your book, we shouldn't smash everyone together and not all black people are the same, not all brown people are the same. There are definitely some pockets where we massively under index, horrifically so [00:36:00] in advertising. But I think increasingly we are getting good representation of people of certainly Caribbean and African origin, but Yeah, I think your brother's watching the wrong adverts.
[00:36:09] Barbara Banda: I shall give him that feedback, Sarah. Thank you very much. I shall. That's great. I'm going to watch something else. Good. So look, we're at the end. I want to ask you though, maybe as a kind of final question [00:36:20] what do you want your legacy to be? When you look back Sarah, and you think about the role you've played in advertising, the changes you're now influencing, what do you want your legacy to be?
[00:36:32] Sarah Jenkins: I've just had another coffee, so I've got a bit more audacity in the system right now. I know creativity is one of the greatest [00:36:40] unlocks for this country. 120 billion pounds a year GDP through the creative industries and there are, there is so much creative talent that is untapped. You look at Korea and K pop and K movies.
They've come about from a government [00:37:00] understanding and recognizing investing in creativity is brilliant. for the economy. So I would love my legacy to be that I am contributing to a nation that recognizes and understands and harnesses creativity and the power of talent, creative talent to create opportunities.[00:37:20]
everyone.
[00:37:21] Barbara Banda: Thank you very much, Sarah. That's been absolutely fantastic. Thank you so much again for being my guests on the podcast. Thank you also for being so open and honest and prepared to talk about all aspects of your life. So Sarah Jenkins, thank you very much.
[00:37:38] Sarah Jenkins: Thank you so much. [00:37:40]
[00:37:41] Barbara Banda: Thank you so much for listening to The Model Black.
These conversations mean so much to me, and they're so important in helping change to happen. If you've enjoyed what you've listened to, please rate, review, follow, subscribe, and share. This helps other people find the show, and [00:38:00] it means you won't miss a thing. If you'd like to find out more information about my book, The Model Black, you can find more information in the podcast description.